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BES 5.0 Router in DMZ - Anyone done this successfully?
 
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Old 07-15-2009, 09:29 PM
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Default BES 5.0 Router in DMZ - Anyone done this successfully?

I am trying to install the BES 5.0 router as a standalone component. This worked fine with 4.1.6, however, with the 5.0 install set, the option to select the router is greyed out and the only choice I have is to install the Blackberry Admin service.

Has anyone been able to install the BES 5.0 router successfully in a DMZ?
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Old 07-15-2009, 11:04 PM
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Can't answer your question, but love your user name.
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Old 07-18-2009, 12:18 PM
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Is this the first component of BES 5.0 you're attempting to install? If so, there is a requirement to install the BAS service first (for administration purposes) and then you can proceed with installing other services (Core BES, remote components, more BAS servers, etc).
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:31 PM
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I already have an internal [non-DMZ] install of all the other BES components including the Admin Service. I just need to be able to install the Router in the DMZ.

In 4.1, it was just a simple matter of selecting the router component and away you went. The router in the DMZ worked independently of the SQL DB (router service ran under a local account). Why couldn't the install just give you all options and if there is something stopping the router component from being installed, just highlight that fact when it is selected?

The BES 5.0 documentation says the following :

"You can install a BlackBerry Router with other BlackBerry® Enterprise Server components or by itself on a separate computer. You can install the BlackBerry Router on a computer that is separate from the computer that hosts the BlackBerry Enterprise Server if you want to install the BlackBerry Router in the DMZ, or to install standby BlackBerry Router instances as failover components in case the primary BlackBerry Router is unavailable.

You can connect multiple BlackBerry Enterprise Server instances to a BlackBerry Router instance.

If you install the BlackBerry Router on a separate computer, the installation process installs the BlackBerry Router and BlackBerry Controller. The BlackBerry Controller monitors the BlackBerry Router and restarts it if it stops responding. "

There is no mention of the need to install the Admin Service.

Last edited by BES Not To Ask; 07-19-2009 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:25 AM
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I heard about the need to open SQL port 1433 to complete the installation. Done that?
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:19 PM
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@BES Not To Ask, I was merely saying that if it was the first component to be installed, you wouldn't have that option. If you have already installed everything else, then that definitely wouldn't be the issue. Have you contacted RIM support yet?

@noname, that would be a rather annoying bug in the software, but I wouldn't put it past them.
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:53 PM
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I have been speaking to RIM support.

This is their response:

"... there is a change in the sequence for the installation package and the installer will prompt for a connection [to] the BlackBerry Configuration Database for it allows you to select the remote component to be installed.

The reason for this is that the installer will need to locate if there is an existing BlackBerry Enterprise Server in your environment so that it will allow the user to choose the installation for remote components or a standby BlackBerry Enterprise Server.

For your scenario here, as you will like to install a remote BlackBerry Router Component in your environment, you will need to enable the following ports to be open from the DMZ to the internal BlackBerry Enterprise Server:

1. Port 3101 for the remote router's connection to the BlackBerry Enterprise Server
2. Port 1433 for the remote router to connect to the SQL server. (This port only needs to be only in the initial installation phase and you may close the port after the installation is completed.)"


Port 3101 was already open, I have asked for 1433 to be opened so that this theory can be proven.

I'll provide further details as I get them.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:48 AM
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They need to fix that rather quickly. From reading one of the responses to your posts on other forums, it seems this was known during the beta phase of BES 5.0. Obviously opening security for SQL would typically be considered a violation of security policies for these sort of environments, even if it was only a temporary rule change. RIM takes pride in their internal implementation of ITIL-compliant measures for their infrastructure, so they should known that change management for planned changes, such as firewall rule changes, would not be an immediate add and remove during the installation of the Router component. Throw in the challenge of using Windows Authentication only and you have a whole mess of issues with the ports. The idea behind the Router component is that it only requires one port to be open - for installation and ongoing communications. They should not have changed that with BES 5.0. They especially should not have changed it and not document it anywhere publically!
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Old 07-28-2009, 01:47 PM
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Pardon my ignorance, but if you need a port open between thr Router and the BES, and you need 3101 outbound if the whole thing is inside the firewall, how is a Router in a DMZ more secure?
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Old 07-28-2009, 04:38 PM
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It is apparently more secure, because you're not opening any ports directly ...

I still think Router in the DMZ adds a level of complexity that most organizations don't need ... or can properly handle.
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Old 07-28-2009, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckBB View Post
Pardon my ignorance, but if you need a port open between thr Router and the BES, and you need 3101 outbound if the whole thing is inside the firewall, how is a Router in a DMZ more secure?
What Howie said. The theory is that you shouldn't have a direct connection to/from the internet to your internal network. These are the environments where you most likely don't have internet access from the internal server infrastructure, etc. Think of it as a similar compromise to an Exchange Front-End Server (or the Microsoft Edge Server model in future versions of Exchange and other Microsoft-centric deployments, such as OCS). Again, this is usually relating to InfoSec groups that are hyper-security as opposed to common sense practical.
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Old 07-29-2009, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
...groups that are hyper-security as opposed to common sense practical.
Oh yeah, don't let common sense in the building.
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Old 08-04-2009, 03:24 AM
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Default Why put the router in the DMZ?

The reason organisations who are security concious insist on a DMZ is to add a layer of security at the edge of their network leaving their internal network one step removed from the internet at large. Its standard network security practice. RIM understand this as they allow and support this option. Putting the router in the DMZ is effectively using it in a similar fashion to a web proxy or a mail proxy. It means you have a box exposed to the internet listening on just port 3101, instead of the myriad of ports that the BES itself uses.

Any organisation that implements a DMZ should have the appropriate level of skills required to handle the issues that arise. And in previous versions of BES putting a router in the DMZ was a very simple exercise. Open one port and away you go.
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Old 08-04-2009, 07:56 AM
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The thing is though ... port 3101 doesn't need to be open to the BES Router. The BES Router simply needs to make an outbound connection on port 3101. I get the point behind it all with moving all Internet connected devices to the DMZ, I just don't think most places take the same precautions with everything else in their infrastructure.
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
What Howie said. The theory is that you shouldn't have a direct connection to/from the internet to your internal network. These are the environments where you most likely don't have internet access from the internal server infrastructure, etc. Think of it as a similar compromise to an Exchange Front-End Server (or the Microsoft Edge Server model in future versions of Exchange and other Microsoft-centric deployments, such as OCS). Again, this is usually relating to InfoSec groups that are hyper-security as opposed to common sense practical.
Amen to that! We have a hyper security group that is forcing us to put the Router in it's own VLAN with ACLs on it to try and secure it more. I understand what is trying to be done, but I just don't think it's really worth the effort. That being said, we're doing it!
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
What Howie said. The theory is that you shouldn't have a direct connection to/from the internet to your internal network. These are the environments where you most likely don't have internet access from the internal server infrastructure, etc. Think of it as a similar compromise to an Exchange Front-End Server (or the Microsoft Edge Server model in future versions of Exchange and other Microsoft-centric deployments, such as OCS). Again, this is usually relating to InfoSec groups that are hyper-security as opposed to common sense practical.
Oh, I get the theory. What always struck me as not making sense is that all those servers in the DMZ also have a path to the internal network in order for data to flow anyway.
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:16 PM
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... right, but its another layer. That is really the whole concept; layers ... just like Shrek.
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:46 AM
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So it's like installing a locked screen storm door in front of my front door. It'll slow down the burglar a little.
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:05 AM
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RIM support has given us an update on this. They confirm this to be a bug which will be solved in SP1 of BES ==> BES 5.0.1. They have filed this bug under SDR365890.
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Old 08-27-2009, 04:09 AM
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I received the same advice from RIM Support re SDR365890 which ---
Quote:
"relates to the issue of installing BlackBerry Router in DMZ. In previous version of BlackBerry Enterprise Server, remote BlackBerry router installation does not require a SQL connection to the BESMgmt database. For BlackBerry Enterprise Server 5.0, this had been an issue and most likely, it will be resolve in future updates/ release."
I managed to get around the issue using the following process:

Tested using the ODBC Administrator tool to confirm connectivity to the BES SQL Server instance was available from the DMZ server and from another internal server. I was able to connect from the internal server but not from the DMZ server. At this stage RIM suggested and I concurred that it was a firewall/network issue and left it with me.

I sat with our firewall team and did a lot of packet sniffing and logging of the traffic between the two servers, and it appeared that the DMZ server and the internal BES server were quite happily talking over port 1433 while trying to do the install.

To further check the issue, I copied the BES install kit to an internal server we had earlier confirmed was able to talk to the BES using osql and ODBC Administrator and tried the install from that server. What I found was that the BES install will only work with the hostname\BLACKBERRY format. If I try with just hostname it gets the same error we were seeing in the DMZ server.

In our earlier connectivity testing on the DMZ server with the ODBC Administrator tool we were using hostname\BLACKBERRY to connect and this was failing. However, I later found that if I used just hostname then it all worked fine. Checking the firewall traffic, we found that when using hostname all the traffic was across port 1433, however when using hostname\BLACKBERRY the connection was trying to use port 445 which is blocked through our firewall.

Searching the web for "SQL Server and port 445", I found a technote from Microsoft re a similar problem in Windows XP that seemed to explain what is happening.

[See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/839269]

I found that after implementing the workaround outlined in the Microsoft technote... ie using cliconfg to add a SQL server alias, that the BES install would work with either name format. Also the connections were all made over port 1433.

Once this change was made to the DMZ server, the install worked fine. So, at this stage, I have a successful router install in the DMZ.

The anomaly is that when using osql, ODBC Administrator and MS SQL SERVER Management Studio, I can connect to the BES using either format without the server alias workaround. As far as I can tell it appears that the inability to connect using just the SQL Server hostname is unique to the BES install.

Last edited by BES Not To Ask; 08-27-2009 at 04:12 AM.
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Old 10-21-2009, 05:33 PM
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I just finished setting up a DMZ router component for a client. What I ended up doing was have the network team assign my DMZ machine an IP that was in the internal LAN segment. I built out both BES 5.0 servers, one BES/BAS and the separate Router component. After both servers were built, I had them move the Router server back to the DMZ. Changed destination SRP address on the BAS to the DMZ box IP and the DMZ box to point to the srp.xx.blackberry.net. The firewall rules looked like this:

BES/BAS 3101 TCP uni -> DMZ router
DMZ Router 3101 TCP uni -> srp.xx.blackberr.net IPs

Works great now.
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Old 11-23-2009, 01:38 PM
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FYI, in BES 5.0.1, you now have the following options for Setup Type:

- Create a BlackBerry Configuration Database
- Use an existing BlackBerry Configuration Database
- Install a standalone BlackBerry Router

This should satisfy the permanent workaround for installing the BlackBerry Router in a DMZ.
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:19 PM
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How do I point the 5.0.1 BES to the remote Router?

The Advanced Server Connections Settings are missing from the Configuration Panel as they were there in 4.1

Please Advise...
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:28 PM
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Is this done only through the Registry:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Research In Motion\BlackBerryRouter

Change allowRemote Services to 1

Do I edit the NetworkAccessNode to the IP of the remote Router?

Or do I edit the Dispatcher entry HEre:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Research In Motion\BlackBerry Enterprise Server\Dispatcher

and edit the NetworkAccessNode here.

Please advise
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