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In Place Upgrade vs. BlackBerry Enterprise Transporter
 
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Old 05-21-2009, 09:50 AM
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Default In Place Upgrade vs. BlackBerry Enterprise Transporter

As I understand it, if you want to upgrade in place, then the moment you do your first server upgrade, which upgrades the SQL db, then you cannot use the 4.1 BES Manager. This sounds scary in a large environment like mine, between the admin training involved for the new BAS web interface as well as the newness of 5.0.

So the other option is to setup a completely new BES 5.0 Domain w/ a new SQL DB. In this case use the Transporter to move the accounts.

What is the thinking among those with large environments? In place upgrade or transport to pristine environment?
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:08 AM
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Our initial thought was to setup a completely new enviroment and migrate accounts over using the Transporter. However, the Transporter does not work if the handheld is 4.3.0.x. I just pulled a report yesterday and we have 867 devices with 4.3.0.x currently installed! Obviously this will warrant serious consideration and we may have to adjust those initial ideas.

Doug
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Old 05-21-2009, 04:51 PM
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Doug,
For those device upgrades, have you deployed Web Desktop Manager? I have found it works well for upgrading many devices at once. Also, depending on the carrier, you may be able to do an OTA update.
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Old 05-21-2009, 05:38 PM
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I had a couple hallway conversations with those involved in the design of the new environment today. It was mentioned that worst case we would leave the 4.1 environment up and allow attrition weed out the 4.3 devices.

We don't currently have WDM or OTA configured. I asked in the past but it was always deemed not important enough to get down.

Oh well, I am just trying to stay optimistic about the positive changes that are planned as we move to BES 5.0.

Doug
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:39 PM
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I plan to install a new BES 5.0 environment & use the Transporter to gradually migrate the handhelds with device software 4.5 & higher.
Not only will it give me a clean database schema, but it will also allow me to move the user accounts back to the 4.1.6 BES if I encounter any issues.
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Old 05-21-2009, 08:29 PM
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We have three domestic BlackBerry domains in two datacenters (one of the domains was moved from a regional datacenter to a local datacenter during our Exchange consolidation). For one of the domains (1,100 users), we'll be performing an in-place upgrade (the hardware is brand new and there is currently no VM environment in this location). For the other two domains (4,000 users total), we'll be building up a new, parallel environment and using ET to move the users over (collapsing two domains into one). We also have an international BES server that will be collapsing into that one as well.

So far, for our major site that will use ET, I have plans of consolidating our current 9 BlackBerry servers into 4 total BES servers (basically doubling capacity on each), implementing 2-3 BAS servers, and setting up HA for the BES environment. With the exception of the DB servers, all of these will be virtual machines. We'll end up moving from 20 servers (BES and DB w/ live DR) to 13 servers (BES and DB w/ live HA). The only downside is that, due to the warm-standby model of the HA configuration, the active OS licensing required will increase from 10 licenses to 12 licenses (SQL standby can remain in a DR licensing scheme, to my knowledge).
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Old 05-22-2009, 07:35 AM
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I'm planning to stand up a new 5.0 environment (all on VMWare, except the SQL DB) and use Enterprise Transporter to move users. The fact that it doesn't work with 4.3 was going to be a pain point because we have several hundred, but our client support team has decided to upgrade all device in our corporate office (1300+) to the newest firmware; they're plan is to allow some (technically minded) users to upgrade their own via WDM and do the rest themself with 'regular' Desktop Manager, assembly line style.
I haven't planned out any details yet. We currently have 3 BES in one BB domain, hosting 2500+ users, and another BES in a seperate BB domain that I plan to collapse into the first BB domain hosting 250 users. I'm thinking at minimum, we'll have 3 BES (specficailly, 3 pairs of them, HA style) and another with BAS and possibly WDM (currently WDM is running off an old test box).
I'm interested in seeing some details on peoples' implementations once they are up and running.
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Old 05-22-2009, 07:49 AM
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Do not use Desktop Manager. Use the Apploader and you can upgrade as many devices as you have physical USB ports on your computer. I cannot write up the process now, but I will in a few days if that is ok.
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Old 05-22-2009, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith_Apprentice View Post
Do not use Desktop Manager. Use the Apploader and you can upgrade as many devices as you have physical USB ports on your computer. I cannot write up the process now, but I will in a few days if that is ok.
Really? That's good news--should make the process go quicker. Thanks!
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Old 05-22-2009, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith_Apprentice View Post
Do not use Desktop Manager. Use the Apploader and you can upgrade as many devices as you have physical USB ports on your computer. I cannot write up the process now, but I will in a few days if that is ok.

You know you can already do that within BlackBerry Manager 4.1? And in the same process the device will be reactivated for that users.
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:00 AM
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this doesnt require a network connection though When I did my upgrades I had 3 PCs running Users had to reactivate themselves hah
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
We also have an international BES server that will be collapsing into that one as well.
Do you have any concerns about having international BES users in a North American domain? Is latency to the Exchange servers less of an issue in 5.0?
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Old 05-26-2009, 08:48 PM
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We went through a data center consolidation, so that site (Mexico) was designated for a domestic data center (Atlanta). Users access their mailboxes over the WAN in cached mode (~135ms), so it simply makes sense to migrate their BES accounts to the same BES environment. We did the same for the DC environment as well (moved to the ATL data center), although it had less than 10ms latency. Both of those BES servers currently reside in our ATL-based ESX environment and their databases were migrated to the ATL-based BES SQL server, so it won't be much of a change (just allows me to clean up in a 3-to-1 consolidation with minimal effort).
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith_Apprentice View Post
Do not use Desktop Manager. Use the Apploader and you can upgrade as many devices as you have physical USB ports on your computer. I cannot write up the process now, but I will in a few days if that is ok.
Sith.

So you do not start from scratch, here is John Clark's post on doing this that you can customize if you need to:

http://www.port3101.org/power-users/...p-install.html
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:07 AM
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Thanks for all the info. Another question: What do you lose by using Transporter? The docs say you lose device configuration, others online say you don't.

Basically, what is the user impact of using Transporter? Even if no reactivation is required, will it be seamless to the user?
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahoward View Post
Thanks for all the info. Another question: What do you lose by using Transporter? The docs say you lose device configuration, others online say you don't.

Basically, what is the user impact of using Transporter? Even if no reactivation is required, will it be seamless to the user?
You lose:

administrative role assignment
group data
software configuration data
IT policy data
BlackBerry MDS Integration Service data
BlackBerry® Browser browser configuration settings

I've attached the BlackBerry Enterprise Transporter Guide to this post for complete information (the above info was from page 6).

It isn't seemless to users ... but it is a lot better than having to EA again
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File Type: pdf BlackBerry_Enterprise_Transporter_Guide.pdf (360.8 KB, 313 views)
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdawg View Post
It isn't seemless to users ... but it is a lot better than having to EA again
Hey hdawg, what happens on the device when they are transported? Are messages lost in the interim? Does a mini activation occur?

Not so concerned about groups, sw configs, etc, as these can be setup in the destination 5.0 domain to duplicate current production.

I assume since it is a "new" IT Policy (which I will setup with the same settings) then it will do a "Your administrator... blah blah... Reset Now?" prompt, is this the case?

I am trying to propose we use the transporter method instead of the in place upgrade, and I need to know what exactly the hit will be to our user base. If it is not much then I think I can justify it.
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Old 06-01-2009, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahoward View Post
Hey hdawg, what happens on the device when they are transported? Are messages lost in the interim? Does a mini activation occur?

Not so concerned about groups, sw configs, etc, as these can be setup in the destination 5.0 domain to duplicate current production.

I assume since it is a "new" IT Policy (which I will setup with the same settings) then it will do a "Your administrator... blah blah... Reset Now?" prompt, is this the case?

I am trying to propose we use the transporter method instead of the in place upgrade, and I need to know what exactly the hit will be to our user base. If it is not much then I think I can justify it.
From what I have read and limited amount I have heard (I have not actually done this myself), it is effectively the same thing as a server move, where the HH needs to get updated service books. Since it is getting a new IT Policy I would assume much the same as you have ...

Sorry I can't give more / better details.
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Old 06-01-2009, 06:00 PM
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The only time a user would receive any sort of message is if they received a policy that was, in fact, more restrictive. Replicating all of the settings prior to using ET should result in a seamless move with no messages. I believe you're in a Domino environment (correct?), in which case you'll need to adjust your expectations to be based on the Domino state database moves, as well. ET was designed to work in both environments, but obviously its better suited for an Exchange environment.
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
The only time a user would receive any sort of message is if they received a policy that was, in fact, more restrictive. Replicating all of the settings prior to using ET should result in a seamless move with no messages. I believe you're in a Domino environment (correct?), in which case you'll need to adjust your expectations to be based on the Domino state database moves, as well. ET was designed to work in both environments, but obviously its better suited for an Exchange environment.
Well that's good to hear, and I will test it out when I get my VM provisioned and Transporter up and running. Will post back results.

BTW, I recently moved firms, I am now working in an Exchange environment. Yes I have come over to the dark side, or good side, or whatever depending upon your stance.

As I told hdawg, I guess I am now BES-sexual!
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:10 PM
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metro-BES-sexual, you mean

For the sake of job security, I believe you made the right decision I'll be testing the ET out, as well (hopefully tonight if I can stay awake - the girlfriend is at the No Doubt/Paramore concert).
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Old 06-06-2009, 07:44 PM
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I tested Enterprise Transporter tonight. I'm up and running on the new BES 5.0 test server and did not receive a prompt that the security had changed. With that said, I did receive an App Error 200 on my device with the option to Reset. I'm going to do a few more tests to make sure this isn't commonplace for ET (that wouldn't be good). The process took 2 minutes to complete, which is quite awesome (not including the 2 additional minutes for my device to reboot following the application crash).

Quote:
(06/06 19:31:48) Migration Starting
(06/06 19:31:48) Manifest: C:\Program Files\Research In Motion\BlackBerry Enterprise Server Resource Kit\BlackBerry Enterprise Transporter\Manifests\atlbestest01-user.xml
(06/06 19:31:48) Preparing to process 1 users
(06/06 19:31:49) {[email protected]} Validating user, TransId=2
(06/06 19:31:49) {[email protected]} *** User appears valid for migration ***
(06/06 19:31:49) {[email protected]} User validated successfully, TransId=2
(06/06 19:31:49) {[email protected]} Disabling user in source domain, TransId=2
(06/06 19:31:49) {[email protected]} User disabled successfully, TransId=2
(06/06 19:31:49) {[email protected]} Waiting 60s for source BES to shut down user
(06/06 19:31:49) {[email protected]} WaitHandler waiting 60 seconds for user, TransId=2
(06/06 19:31:50) {[email protected]} Wait time remaing for current task: 59s
(06/06 19:32:10) {[email protected]} Wait time remaing for current task: 39s
(06/06 19:32:30) {[email protected]} Wait time remaing for current task: 19s
(06/06 19:32:49) {[email protected]} WaitHandler done waiting, TransId=2
(06/06 19:32:49) {[email protected]} Migrating user data, TransId=2
(06/06 19:32:49) {[email protected]} Starting migration from ATLBESTEST01[4.1.6.19] to ATLVBESQA01[5.0.0.114]
(06/06 19:32:51) {[email protected]} Data migrated successfully, TransId=2
(06/06 19:32:51) {[email protected]} Monitoring server for SWITCH_SERVICE, this may take up to 210 seconds
(06/06 19:32:56) {[email protected]} Wait time remaining for current task: 85s, SWITCH_SERVICE status: Unknown
(06/06 19:33:06) {[email protected]} SWITCH_SERVICE is successful
(06/06 19:33:07) {[email protected]} Started BAS configuration, TransId=2
(06/06 19:33:07) {[email protected]} Assigning user to IT Policy: "TTSPasswordPolicy"
(06/06 19:33:07) Starting BUA call
(06/06 19:33:13) BUA call complete. Result=0
(06/06 19:33:13) {[email protected]} Group/IT Policy assignment successful
(06/06 19:33:13) {[email protected]} Completed BAS configuration successfully, TransId=2
(06/06 19:33:13) {[email protected]} Monitoring server for SET_IT_POLICY, this may take up to 420 seconds
(06/06 19:33:18) {[email protected]} Wait time remaining for current task: 119s, SET_IT_POLICY status: RequestSent
(06/06 19:33:33) {[email protected]} SET_IT_POLICY is successful
(06/06 19:33:33) {[email protected]} Deleting user from source, TransId=2
(06/06 19:33:34) {[email protected]} User successfully deleted, TransId=2
(06/06 19:33:34) {[email protected]} Completing job TransId=2
(06/06 19:33:34) **** START USER SUMMARY ****
(06/06 19:33:34) [email protected] MIGRATION_COMPLETE_SUCCESS
(06/06 19:33:34) **** END USER SUMMARY ****
(06/06 19:33:34) Migration Complete!
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:07 PM
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Thanks Otto, keep the test results coming... once I get my VM provisioned I will try to replicate / confirm some of this.
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Old 07-02-2009, 04:21 PM
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Well I was finally able to transport a user today. I have both source and destination IT Policies the same, yet I got a "permissions changed, reset now/later" prompt. Perhaps b/c of software config, will have to test some more.

In any case, Otto, do you or anyone else know why the "trigger slow sync" option would need to be selected? The docs don't say much about it.
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Old 07-02-2009, 06:53 PM
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I could only assume in case something was changed during the migration. But it is lacking in that department. And yes, software configurations could be the culprit (more accurately, the application policy).
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:20 AM
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As a follow up, I also received "ControlledAccessException" errors on a couple of third party apps after the tranport operation. These were not cleared upon a restart of the handheld, nor even when the software config was removed.

I then transported another handheld from 4.1 SP6 to 5.0 MR1 without specifying a software config, everything came over perfectly with no reset prompt, and no "ControlledAccessException" errors.

I will need to test this new fangled 5.0 application control policy (and associated apc for unlisted apps) thouroughly apparently...
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
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With that said, I did receive an App Error 200 on my device with the option to Reset.
Otto, as a follow up to this, do you recall what device model / OS version you had this error on? I want to watch for it.
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:11 PM
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Not sure on the OS version (4.6.1.x), but it was my 8900 that it happened on.
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